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	<title>Comments on: Chris Bowers: The Progressive Failure To Engage The Grassroots on Climate Change</title>
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		<title>By: Crista</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155322</link>
		<dc:creator>Crista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 05:27:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155322</guid>
		<description>There are other reasons that a bill can generate opposition phone calls with a 19-to-1 ratio. Let&#039;s pretend for a moment that the Cap and Trade bill represented perfect science, so that you and I are not arguing about the science. What else might cause people to be horrified enough to phone in droves?. (And with a 19:1 ratio, the reaction was extreme, I think we can agree.)

Here were some of the very key problems ASIDE FROM WHETHER PEOPLE AGREE ON THE SCIENCE: 302 pages were added to the bill in the middle of the night before the congressmen were expected to vote. That just reeks of sneakiness, and I think you can agree that if the Republicans had done that to a bill when they had a majority to pass the bill, you would recognize it as sneakiness.  So that was a huge red flag, and it was highly publicized all morning to the public.

Another massive problem was the projected household expense increases per family after the bill gets enacted.  There were enough varied study groups reporting on the expenses associated with the bill, that it was reasonable for the general public to believe that their annual expenses would increase a minimum of $2000-$3000 per year. (That doesn&#039;t include pass through costs--just energy cost increases.)  I don&#039;t have a big extended family, but off the top of my head, that would really harm both my brothers&#039; families and one brother-in-law&#039;s family.  Other relatives and I could cover the increase.  Many seniors in America live on a tight fixed income, and many people who made those phone calls were doing so on behalf of the seniors whom they know and love.  (Face it, when Grandma and Grandpa can&#039;t make ends meet anymore, we DEFINITELY hear about it, and often step in to assist them financially. When my mother ran out of money, we paid all her expenses except food and medical until she died, including hospice care.)

Based on the financial issues and the last minute 302 page bill addendum ALONE, there were people making those phones calls, again, REGARDLESS of the merits of the science.  Lots of ideas sound good, but people managing household budgets need to feel confident that they can both afford the costs AND trust the people behind the legislation. I wouldn&#039;t trust anybody from either party who threw in a 302 page addendum. (Plus I was privy to much of the content of the addendum, and that&#039;s a whole &#039;nother discussion.)

That&#039;s about it. I&#039;m sorry the bill didn&#039;t go your way. These pieces of legislation need to be brief and concise, and especially without all kinds of extra topics thrown in, such as housing mandates and charity mandates and ACORN mandates, etc.  It&#039;s so much easier to support brief, clear, concise legislation, whether it&#039;s about energy efficiency or roads &amp; bridges.  If we fight the status quo hard enough, we can make inroads.  I work full-time, for free, fighting for change. Progress is slow, but it&#039;s there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are other reasons that a bill can generate opposition phone calls with a 19-to-1 ratio. Let&#8217;s pretend for a moment that the Cap and Trade bill represented perfect science, so that you and I are not arguing about the science. What else might cause people to be horrified enough to phone in droves?. (And with a 19:1 ratio, the reaction was extreme, I think we can agree.)</p>
<p>Here were some of the very key problems ASIDE FROM WHETHER PEOPLE AGREE ON THE SCIENCE: 302 pages were added to the bill in the middle of the night before the congressmen were expected to vote. That just reeks of sneakiness, and I think you can agree that if the Republicans had done that to a bill when they had a majority to pass the bill, you would recognize it as sneakiness.  So that was a huge red flag, and it was highly publicized all morning to the public.</p>
<p>Another massive problem was the projected household expense increases per family after the bill gets enacted.  There were enough varied study groups reporting on the expenses associated with the bill, that it was reasonable for the general public to believe that their annual expenses would increase a minimum of $2000-$3000 per year. (That doesn&#8217;t include pass through costs&#8211;just energy cost increases.)  I don&#8217;t have a big extended family, but off the top of my head, that would really harm both my brothers&#8217; families and one brother-in-law&#8217;s family.  Other relatives and I could cover the increase.  Many seniors in America live on a tight fixed income, and many people who made those phone calls were doing so on behalf of the seniors whom they know and love.  (Face it, when Grandma and Grandpa can&#8217;t make ends meet anymore, we DEFINITELY hear about it, and often step in to assist them financially. When my mother ran out of money, we paid all her expenses except food and medical until she died, including hospice care.)</p>
<p>Based on the financial issues and the last minute 302 page bill addendum ALONE, there were people making those phones calls, again, REGARDLESS of the merits of the science.  Lots of ideas sound good, but people managing household budgets need to feel confident that they can both afford the costs AND trust the people behind the legislation. I wouldn&#8217;t trust anybody from either party who threw in a 302 page addendum. (Plus I was privy to much of the content of the addendum, and that&#8217;s a whole &#8216;nother discussion.)</p>
<p>That&#8217;s about it. I&#8217;m sorry the bill didn&#8217;t go your way. These pieces of legislation need to be brief and concise, and especially without all kinds of extra topics thrown in, such as housing mandates and charity mandates and ACORN mandates, etc.  It&#8217;s so much easier to support brief, clear, concise legislation, whether it&#8217;s about energy efficiency or roads &amp; bridges.  If we fight the status quo hard enough, we can make inroads.  I work full-time, for free, fighting for change. Progress is slow, but it&#8217;s there.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Shireman</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155235</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Shireman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 07:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155235</guid>
		<description>Cindy Cindy Cindy - ru serious?  Why do you feel it necessary to accuse people who disagree with you about a WELL ESTABLISHED theory of wanting to abort your children.  Or of being a bunch of wing nuts.  You&#039;ve probably been called the same, given your tenor, but that doesn&#039;t give you the right to pass it on, and yelling doesn&#039;t substitute for a well-framed argument.  Some of us like to THINK about these issues, are open to ideas from the right AND left, and are more interested in solving problems than demonizing people. Lighten up. (And, the correct spelling is &quot;accept&quot;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cindy Cindy Cindy &#8211; ru serious?  Why do you feel it necessary to accuse people who disagree with you about a WELL ESTABLISHED theory of wanting to abort your children.  Or of being a bunch of wing nuts.  You&#8217;ve probably been called the same, given your tenor, but that doesn&#8217;t give you the right to pass it on, and yelling doesn&#8217;t substitute for a well-framed argument.  Some of us like to THINK about these issues, are open to ideas from the right AND left, and are more interested in solving problems than demonizing people. Lighten up. (And, the correct spelling is &#8220;accept&#8221;)</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy W</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155231</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy W</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155231</guid>
		<description>You Self serving egomaniacs just cannot except the reality of the failure of your THEORY, not fact, not science, THEORY! Get over your pathetic attempts to control the masses through your GREEN SOLUTIONS, Socialism and Communism masked as the Progressive Movement. I am sure if the energy bill went as far as you wanted it, it would include population control, forced abortion if the allowed number of problems, excuse me children per family allowed were exceeded, no AC or comfort for anyone and of course, killing off the human race as the ultimate solution, except, of course, for the few who are enlightened as yourselves. The word is out and We The People, the majority of Americans who have been living our lives, paying our taxes, conserving in our communities and doing our part to protect the environment blindly have allowed a bunch of LEFT WING NUTS to take over our national policy. GUESS WHAT,are not buying your BS anymore, we are watching and WE ARE FIGHTING BACK!!!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You Self serving egomaniacs just cannot except the reality of the failure of your THEORY, not fact, not science, THEORY! Get over your pathetic attempts to control the masses through your GREEN SOLUTIONS, Socialism and Communism masked as the Progressive Movement. I am sure if the energy bill went as far as you wanted it, it would include population control, forced abortion if the allowed number of problems, excuse me children per family allowed were exceeded, no AC or comfort for anyone and of course, killing off the human race as the ultimate solution, except, of course, for the few who are enlightened as yourselves. The word is out and We The People, the majority of Americans who have been living our lives, paying our taxes, conserving in our communities and doing our part to protect the environment blindly have allowed a bunch of LEFT WING NUTS to take over our national policy. GUESS WHAT,are not buying your BS anymore, we are watching and WE ARE FIGHTING BACK!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jenna</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155218</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155218</guid>
		<description>Bill - you&#039;re overreacting. Chris used the quotes from your piece to establish one point; the grassroots bit he mostly argued from Thomas Friedman&#039;s article. It&#039;s not all your fault Bill, it&#039;s pretty much everyone in the green groups&#039; fault.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill &#8211; you&#8217;re overreacting. Chris used the quotes from your piece to establish one point; the grassroots bit he mostly argued from Thomas Friedman&#8217;s article. It&#8217;s not all your fault Bill, it&#8217;s pretty much everyone in the green groups&#8217; fault.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Scher</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155207</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Scher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 12:55:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155207</guid>
		<description>Chris, the mendacity lies in the post. You are misrepresenting my analysis (which was strategic advice on how best to STRENGTHEN THE BILL in the Senate), you are accusing me of blaming the progressive grassroots which I never did, and you are falsely using my lone blog post to characterize the messaging of the environmental groups actively supporting the House bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, the mendacity lies in the post. You are misrepresenting my analysis (which was strategic advice on how best to STRENGTHEN THE BILL in the Senate), you are accusing me of blaming the progressive grassroots which I never did, and you are falsely using my lone blog post to characterize the messaging of the environmental groups actively supporting the House bill.</p>
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		<title>By: OutsideTheBox</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155204</link>
		<dc:creator>OutsideTheBox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155204</guid>
		<description>On what issues or bills, if any, have progressive phone calls made a difference?

If members are perfectly happy to cite astroturf calls to justify their votes, would any amount of real calls have made a difference this time?

I&#039;d like for Gore, green groups, progressive orgs, bloggers, Congress critters who get it, to call on Americans to do something different, not to call (other) rep&#039;s offices, not to go to a concert, or turn down or up the thermostat, not to change a light bulb, or sign a petition, or make a pledge or forward an action alert, but, at a given time on a given day (soon!) &lt;strong&gt;to grab a bat and a ball, or a glove, and to sing our national anthem and to have a friendly pick-up game or just a fun catch among cubicles for a couple of minutes, to send a symbolic message to Washington and the whole world, that Americans care, Americans know, Americans get it, and that bold action fits with, is part of, the American Spirit and Story&lt;/strong&gt;. What&#039;s American about sitting on the bench?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On what issues or bills, if any, have progressive phone calls made a difference?</p>
<p>If members are perfectly happy to cite astroturf calls to justify their votes, would any amount of real calls have made a difference this time?</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like for Gore, green groups, progressive orgs, bloggers, Congress critters who get it, to call on Americans to do something different, not to call (other) rep&#8217;s offices, not to go to a concert, or turn down or up the thermostat, not to change a light bulb, or sign a petition, or make a pledge or forward an action alert, but, at a given time on a given day (soon!) <strong>to grab a bat and a ball, or a glove, and to sing our national anthem and to have a friendly pick-up game or just a fun catch among cubicles for a couple of minutes, to send a symbolic message to Washington and the whole world, that Americans care, Americans know, Americans get it, and that bold action fits with, is part of, the American Spirit and Story</strong>. What&#8217;s American about sitting on the bench?</p>
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		<title>By: JS</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155202</link>
		<dc:creator>JS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 23:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155202</guid>
		<description>In the same way that Global Climatic Catastrophe (more accurate than &#039;global warming&#039;) is difficult for most people to wrap their heads around, this bill was difficult for anyone up to date on the science to be excited about.  That&#039;s not so much a messaging problem as much as a factor of the recent science suggesting we need 20-40% reductions from 1990 levels, and we&#039;re given... 17% from 2005 levels.

That being said, if you want to play a game a la Climate Progress, with the passage of this bill we have a 20% chance of mitigating Climate Catastrophe.  We have a 0% chance without it.  This is depressing in and of itself, but we&#039;re basically at the point where we need to deny the truth (that the bill is inadequate) in order to message the thing right (which is necessary if it&#039;s going to be passed and strengthened.)  I&#039;m not saying message-makers didn&#039;t make mistakes.  They did, and they continue to fail to understand that climate scare-tactics are not going to inspire most people.  But they inherited a difficult message to pull off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the same way that Global Climatic Catastrophe (more accurate than &#8216;global warming&#8217;) is difficult for most people to wrap their heads around, this bill was difficult for anyone up to date on the science to be excited about.  That&#8217;s not so much a messaging problem as much as a factor of the recent science suggesting we need 20-40% reductions from 1990 levels, and we&#8217;re given&#8230; 17% from 2005 levels.</p>
<p>That being said, if you want to play a game a la Climate Progress, with the passage of this bill we have a 20% chance of mitigating Climate Catastrophe.  We have a 0% chance without it.  This is depressing in and of itself, but we&#8217;re basically at the point where we need to deny the truth (that the bill is inadequate) in order to message the thing right (which is necessary if it&#8217;s going to be passed and strengthened.)  I&#8217;m not saying message-makers didn&#8217;t make mistakes.  They did, and they continue to fail to understand that climate scare-tactics are not going to inspire most people.  But they inherited a difficult message to pull off.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155200</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 21:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155200</guid>
		<description>Enviro groups and activists have worked hard for the last decade to get us to this point, and it&#039;s not as if we have nothing to show for it. The starting point in 1998 was a 95-0 sense of the Senate resolution against ratifying the Kyoto treaty.

A decade later, in spite of &lt;strong&gt;HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS&lt;/strong&gt; spent by big polluters and right wing idealogues so far this year alone, we passed a decent bill out of the House and stand at least a 50-50 chance of moving a bill out of the Senate.

We need everyone who cares about this issue to get on board and focus on establishing the framework of a strong carbon cap. This is a critical step if we are to show the world the U.S. means business in Copenhagen later this year. We may not get another chance to get this right. Let&#039;s pull ourselves together and get the Senate to pass a strong bill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Enviro groups and activists have worked hard for the last decade to get us to this point, and it&#8217;s not as if we have nothing to show for it. The starting point in 1998 was a 95-0 sense of the Senate resolution against ratifying the Kyoto treaty.</p>
<p>A decade later, in spite of <strong>HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS</strong> spent by big polluters and right wing idealogues so far this year alone, we passed a decent bill out of the House and stand at least a 50-50 chance of moving a bill out of the Senate.</p>
<p>We need everyone who cares about this issue to get on board and focus on establishing the framework of a strong carbon cap. This is a critical step if we are to show the world the U.S. means business in Copenhagen later this year. We may not get another chance to get this right. Let&#8217;s pull ourselves together and get the Senate to pass a strong bill.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/07/08/bowers-progressive-failure/comment-page-1/#comment-155198</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Jul 2009 20:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/?p=18201#comment-155198</guid>
		<description>Maybe the problem is that it really was a sucky bill.

The problem as I see it with environmental legislation, with health care and other important issues is that we start off with the crappy, watered-down compromise of a bill and negotiate from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe the problem is that it really was a sucky bill.</p>
<p>The problem as I see it with environmental legislation, with health care and other important issues is that we start off with the crappy, watered-down compromise of a bill and negotiate from there.</p>
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