Rice: Al Qaeda A Greater Threat Than Nazi Germany
Rice: Al Qaeda A Greater Threat Than Nazi Germany
Responding to a question from a Stanford University student who noted that, even in moments of actual existential peril like World War II, the United States never resorted to techniques like waterboarding, former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice made a pretty startling claim about the relative threat posed by Al Qaeda:
Q: Even in World War II facing Nazi Germany, probably the greatest threat that America has ever faced –
RICE: Uh, with all due respect, Nazi Germany never attacked the homeland of the United States.
Q: No, but they bombed our allies –
RICE: No, just a second, just a second. Three-thousand Americans died in the Twin Towers and the Pentagon.
Q: 500,000 died in World War II –
RICE: Fighting a war in Europe.
Q: — and yet we did not torture the prisoners of war.
RICE: We didn’t torture anybody here either.
Watch it (segment begins at 3:28):
What’s interesting here is that the “threat” that Rice is talking about has nothing to do with the actual threat posed to the United States by a few hundred committed jihadists, but rather with the threat that she and others in the administration “felt” in the days and months after 9/11:
RICE: I’ll tell you something, unless you were there in a position of responsibility after September 11, you cannot possibly imagine the dilemmas that you faced in trying to protect Americans. And I know a lot of people are second guessing now, but let me tell you what the second guessing that would really have hurt me: If the second guessing were about 3,000 more Americans dying because we didn’t do everything we could to protect them.
If you were there in a position of authority and watched Americans jump out of 80 story buildings because these murderous tyrants went after innocent people, then you were determined to do anything you could — that was legal — to prevent that from happening again.
It’s hard not to read this as an admission by our former Secretary of State that terrorism works — or at least it worked on her, to the extent that it induced her to embrace interrogation methods that previous American administrations prosecuted as crimes.
No one should pretend that these aren’t tough questions, or forget the trauma we all felt after 9/11, but being a nation of laws means we can’t just jettison those laws through fancy lawyering when the going gets tough and we get freaked out.
I would also remind Dr. Rice that it is a fact that quite a few more than 3,000 more Americans have died as a result of the Bush administration’s anti-terrorism policies, and a good portion of those as a direct result of the detention and interrogation methods that she continues to defend as necessary to protect Americans.
In fact, the German Kriegsmarine sank approximately 600 US and Allied merchant vessels in and around US territorial waters between January and June 1942. These attacks came shortly after Nazi Germany declared war on the United States. Approximately 1500 American sailors were killed in these attacks. I suspect that an attack on an American ship in US territorial waters would be interpreted by just about anyone as an attack on the homeland of the United States.
19 Responses to “Rice: Al Qaeda A Greater Threat Than Nazi Germany”
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Another lying Bushie. There goes her shot at running the NFL. Maybe Chevron will take her back.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:11 pmIsn’t she touchy about this.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:16 pmThey all need to be held accountable.
Ever since the Bush Administration reacted to the attacks of 9/11, I’ve strongly felt their actions absolutely reeked of fear and panic. Bush’s stunned look as he sat in that Florida elementary school for seven minutes without reacting. Cheney’s hysterical actions. And now Rice is admitting that’s exactly what happened. These people were moral and physical cowards who, instead of making reasoned plans simply lashed out in some sort of evil cartoonish way that was totally counterproductive. And in that respect, the terrorists really did win the Battle of 9/11.
The really pathetic thing is that Cheney, Bush, Rice and the rest of them remain almost paralyzed with fear that a bunch of primitive tribalists hiding out in caves on the Afghan-Pakistan border are going to take over the world.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:26 pmAnd I know a lot of people are second guessing now, but let me tell you what the second guessing that would really have hurt me: If the second guessing were about 3,000 more Americans dying because we didn’t do everything we could to protect them.
If you were there in a position of authority and watched Americans jump out of 80 story buildings…then you were determined to do anything you could — that was legal — to prevent that from happening again.
Busted! You had a very clear warning in August 2001. And as National Security Advisor, you chose to ignore it.
So trying to atone for not preventing the 3,000 deaths on 9/11 by rounding up, imprisoning a bunch of random ArabsMuslimsBrownpeople, torturing people for months isn’t going to get you any forgiveness for your criminal negligence.
“Oops, my bad” won’t cut it.
April 30th, 2009 at 12:42 pmI hate to contradict someone as knowledgeable about history as Ms. Rice, but the Germans did attack the “homeland” during World War II. Boats in our shipping lanes just off the East Coast were attacked by German U Boats during the war. Unless you don’t consider our territorial waters part of the “homeland”.
I normally hate to cite Wikipedia, but I don’t think an academic of the caliber of Ms. Rice deserves anything better.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attacks_on_North_America_during_World_War_II#United_States
April 30th, 2009 at 1:06 pmThe NAZIs were part of an alliance that resulted in a military attack on American Naval vessels in port. The NAZIs murdered American Civilians in Europe and American troops who surrendered. They possessed the larger half of an entire continent at their height.
We used to think Dr. Rice was the sole sane voice in the Bush Whiter House. Damn were we wrong.
April 30th, 2009 at 2:13 pmHow about Japan? Didn’t they bomb the US Fleet and invade the Aleutian islands? Or don’t Hawaii and Alaska count as the “homeland”? (Don’t tell Gov. Palin…)
April 30th, 2009 at 9:19 pmThe Bush administration “loved not wisely but too well.” In their efforts to save America, ironically, they jettisoned our ideals, which actually increased our peril.
May 1st, 2009 at 1:56 pmTyrants attacked us on 9/11? Since when?
Honestly though, I don’t blame Condi for any of this. She was a lightweight and she’ll always be a lightweight. Same with Bush. And really, same with ALL of these people. Rummy, Cheney, Wolfy, and the rest of the pro-war gang. They were mental midgets who excelled at playing office politics and little else. The blame goes to the people who put them in charge. Yet, that’s such a nebulous group, that there really isn’t anyone specific to blame. I guess the closest it comes is blaming Nader, but even that’s no fun anymore.
But all the same, idiocy generally isn’t considered a proper excuse for criminal activity, so we really should lock these suckers up.
May 1st, 2009 at 8:30 pmAND she got more facts wrong.
For instance, the “model” prison thing is wrong. And the report from the OSCE actually called for the “disbandment” of Gitmo.
She didn’t do her homework.
http://2politicaljunkies.blogspot.com/2009/04/condoleezza-rice-no-torture.html
May 1st, 2009 at 9:04 pmAnd it really can’t be stressed enough that 9-11 was a one-time-only attack that can never be repeated. Before that, people whose plane got hijacked were advised to just lay low, keep quiet, follow instructions and things would eventually turn out okay. These were reasonable and sensible instructions.
After 9-11, it became obvious that this advice was completely obsolete and that hijackings must be fought, quite literally, to the death. If six people die while trying to subdue the hijackers, that’s an acceptable price as that may save hundreds of lives both on and off the plane.
My politically-conservative brother in NYC toured a nuclear plant and said there’s no chance that a guerrilla group will ever take control of one. It’s difficult to see what else a rag-tag group like al Qaeda could possibly do.
May 1st, 2009 at 9:35 pmThe basic inanity and evasiveness of Rice’s response is being obscured by these correct, yet trivial factoids about ships being torpedoed off Long Island.
We were attacked on December 7, 1941 by an alliance of nation states that controlled the world’s most powerful army, navy, and air forces, including ten million or so soldiers, sailors, and airmen, backed by the industry and resources of most of Europe and (by the spring of 1942) most of East Asia.
We were attacked on September 11, 2001, by a gang of xenophobic religious fantatics numbering a few hundred active members and a few thousand armed supporters, mostly hiding in remote corners of the world, commanding no more weaponry and resources than a good-sized American police department.
Yes, it is true that Bonnie and Clyde killed more Americans on American soil in the 1930s than the entire Waffen SS killed on American soil in the 1940s, but who would be stupid enough to compare the two to prove a point?
May 1st, 2009 at 10:20 pmThe Nazis did in fact land saboteurs in upstate New York (?) & although it was foiled almost immediately it was most definitely an attack. I know their U-Boats lobbed the odd deck-gun volley inland in Newfoundland … don’t know if this also happened in New England or not, but it seems likely.
Even if she were technically correct, the reasoning is utterly bankrupt. Comparing a regime controlling the bulk of Europe, with millions of well-trained well-stocked troops, armed with Messerschmitts, Panzers & Buzzbombs, to the jihadis hiding in the hills of Afghanistan & Pakistan is like comparing a high-school bully to the Hell’s Angels – I’ll have what she’s smoking.
May 1st, 2009 at 11:27 pm“— and yet we did not torture the prisoners of war.” Its pretty sad how stupid Bush haters are, when there is clear evidence that the US tortured it OWN solders and civilians in WWII. Do you really think a countries tortures its own people, but not the enemy? Get a clue loser. The difference was that the media was not over run by liberals with an anti-war agenda looking to expose anything to undermine its government.
May 2nd, 2009 at 12:01 amShe should stop being a lacky and grow a backbone…It’s amazing how these ppl cannot use brains of their own…She needs to be reminded that she can speak her mind out without being spanked by her papa “Dubya”
May 2nd, 2009 at 12:48 amIf you were there in a position of authority and watched Americans jump out of 80 story buildings because these murderous tyrants went after innocent people
“tyrant” implies that the heads of governments were involved. I don’t think you can call OBL a “tyrant”, and the Taliban mullahs were only marginally involved. So whom could “Dr” Rice have been thinking of?
She’s a profoundly stupid person, like her bosses. I don’t think you can really talk in terms of (dis)honesty. Unless they’re reminded by some friendly interviewer, they are incapable of discussing what happened on 9/11/01 with any kind of lucidity or reason.
May 2nd, 2009 at 5:54 amI have no numbers, but German subs sank American and Allied shipping in the Gulf of Mexico as well.
And even beyond the two mile limit, as along as a ship is in international waters an attack on it by a foreign power is, I believe, roughly equivalent to an attack on sovereign soil.
May 2nd, 2009 at 10:11 amJust as an Embassy is recognized as the Sovereign soil of the nation it represents.
Hmm, everybody is wrong here…
First of all, the premise that American or other Allied troops during World War II never “tortured” (using the contemporary definition of torture utilized by this site) is absolutely wrong. The vast majority of the Nuremberg defendents were “tortured” by modern standard and summary execution on the battlefield was not an uncommon occurrence.
Secondly, Rice is wrong; the United States and her ships were attacked on numerous occasions by Nazi u-boats prior to the U.S. formally entering the war. After we formally entered, the Nazis planned to use long-range bombers to bomb American cities.
As for whether or not Islamist terrorists pose an existential threat to the U.S., I don’t think that they currently do. However, that is not due to a lack of resolve or desire to do so… rather, it’s due to a lack of capability. If they possessed the same capabilities as the Nazis or Communists, there’s no doubt in my mind that they would utilize them to bring about wholesale destruction as great, if not greater, than either of those two ideologies. Thankfully, there have been those who over the past three decades have successfully pushed back against the “peace is upon us” consensus and maintained a strong and modern military. Without it, tyrants like Saddam Hussein may well have been able to bring about a level of destruction on a scale comparable to World War II.
May 2nd, 2009 at 7:24 pmNo need to even bring up WWII… what would be helpful is if reporters studied what Spain and the UK have done since they were attacked much as we were.. to my knowledge they havent created GTMOs and waterboarding…
May 3rd, 2009 at 9:11 pm