Comments on: Torturing The Al Qaeda-Iraq Connection http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/ Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:42:01 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: alanfleisig http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/comment-page-1/#comment-152759 alanfleisig Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:39:27 +0000 http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/#comment-152759 Dick Cheney is running off at the mouth because he's running scared. And with good reason. The Orwellian double-speak that obfuscated the authoritarian torture state created by the Bush-Cheney administration in the aftermath of 9/11 is collapsing. Dick Cheney is facing serious jail time. He's especially facing serious jail time if the allegation, bouncing around the Internet now, that "Global War on Terrorism" suspects were tortured with the sole and specific intent of supporting the thesis of a link between Sadaam Hussein and Al Qaeda in the run-up to the Iraq War, proves true. Torture is torture. Even John Boehner, that font of ignorance and obstructionism, frontman for the reactionary movement that now calls itself the Republican Party, called it so in a recent unguarded moment. Torture apologists like Boehner are arguing that instead of prosecution, we should have a political debate, that this all boils down to a political disagreement. But civilized societies don't debate the merits of torture any more than they debate the merits of genocide. There simply is no legitimate debate to be had on this issue. It is moot. Dick Cheney is running off at the mouth because he’s running scared. And with good reason. The Orwellian double-speak that obfuscated the authoritarian torture state created by the Bush-Cheney administration in the aftermath of 9/11 is collapsing. Dick Cheney is facing serious jail time. He’s especially facing serious jail time if the allegation, bouncing around the Internet now, that “Global War on Terrorism” suspects were tortured with the sole and specific intent of supporting the thesis of a link between Sadaam Hussein and Al Qaeda in the run-up to the Iraq War, proves true.

Torture is torture. Even John Boehner, that font of ignorance and obstructionism, frontman for the reactionary movement that now calls itself the Republican Party, called it so in a recent unguarded moment. Torture apologists like Boehner are arguing that instead of prosecution, we should have a political debate, that this all boils down to a political disagreement. But civilized societies don’t debate the merits of torture any more than they debate the merits of genocide. There simply is no legitimate debate to be had on this issue. It is moot.

]]> By: Harry R. Sohl http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/comment-page-1/#comment-152677 Harry R. Sohl Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:41:32 +0000 http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/#comment-152677 False confessions to a false war? It's a "<strong>Slam</strong> (them into a wall, and) <strong>Dunk</strong> (their heads by waterboarding them)! False confessions to a false war?

It’s a “Slam (them into a wall, and) Dunk (their heads by waterboarding them)!

]]> By: The Reverend http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/comment-page-1/#comment-152658 The Reverend Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:01:52 +0000 http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/#comment-152658 The Iraqi oilfield maps were open on the White House desk in February, 2001. Entering office, the Bush foreign policy, such as it was, had Iraq at the top of the list. These guys were going to do Iraq, hell or high water. But to try to extract phony intel through torture just to beat out a few figleaves of ass covering justification, even if phony, is really quite breathtaking in it's conspiratorial lawlessness. I mean, don't you think? The Iraqi oilfield maps were open on the White House desk in February, 2001. Entering office, the Bush foreign policy, such as it was, had Iraq at the top of the list. These guys were going to do Iraq, hell or high water.

But to try to extract phony intel through torture just to beat out a few figleaves of ass covering justification, even if phony, is really quite breathtaking in it’s conspiratorial lawlessness. I mean, don’t you think?

]]> By: cervantes http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/comment-page-1/#comment-152654 cervantes Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:35:25 +0000 http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/#comment-152654 Yeah well, what we have here are crimes against humanity. Not just the torture, but the illegal war of aggression it was used to try to justify. But you know, we're looking forward, not back. Should have done the same thing at Nuremberg, it would have been more progressive, you know? All that prosecution of Nazis -- so vindictive. Sure, the Nazis made policy decisions that are regrettable, but thanks to the retribution that was taken against them, future psychopathic dictators won't feel they can make decisions without the prospect that they might be second guessed and get into trouble for it. Yeah well, what we have here are crimes against humanity. Not just the torture, but the illegal war of aggression it was used to try to justify.

But you know, we’re looking forward, not back. Should have done the same thing at Nuremberg, it would have been more progressive, you know? All that prosecution of Nazis — so vindictive. Sure, the Nazis made policy decisions that are regrettable, but thanks to the retribution that was taken against them, future psychopathic dictators won’t feel they can make decisions without the prospect that they might be second guessed and get into trouble for it.

]]> By: Glenn http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/comment-page-1/#comment-152650 Glenn Wed, 22 Apr 2009 17:37:07 +0000 http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/#comment-152650 Frankly, while it is certainly disturbing, there's nothing "ironic" about it. The administration needed false confessions, so they turned to procedures designed to produce exactly that. It's only "ironic" if you attribute good-faith motives to those who ordered the torture. I think the evidence against that position is now overwhelming. Frankly, while it is certainly disturbing, there’s nothing “ironic” about it. The administration needed false confessions, so they turned to procedures designed to produce exactly that. It’s only “ironic” if you attribute good-faith motives to those who ordered the torture. I think the evidence against that position is now overwhelming.

]]> By: Green Eagle http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/comment-page-1/#comment-152644 Green Eagle Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:21:46 +0000 http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2009/04/22/torturing-the-al-qaeda-iraq-connection/#comment-152644 I have been suggesting for some time that these techniques were obviously used not in spite of their propensity to produce false confessions, but BECAUSE they produce false confessions. I am glad to see some other people finally ready to openly face this fact (at least you and Atrios this morning.) Recognition of this fact should be the final blow to the justifications of torture offered by the Bush administration. It is time to get on with our duty to see that these barbarous acts, carried out in all of our names, have consequences. I have been suggesting for some time that these techniques were obviously used not in spite of their propensity to produce false confessions, but BECAUSE they produce false confessions. I am glad to see some other people finally ready to openly face this fact (at least you and Atrios this morning.)

Recognition of this fact should be the final blow to the justifications of torture offered by the Bush administration. It is time to get on with our duty to see that these barbarous acts, carried out in all of our names, have consequences.

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