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	<title>Comments on: Rick Warren: Stopping Evil &#8216;Is The Legitimate Role Of Government&#8217;</title>
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		<title>By: BlameGame</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-3314</link>
		<dc:creator>BlameGame</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 02:37:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/#comment-3314</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m amazed I let Pastor Rick&#039;s surprising comment get by me. Its pretty relevant now that he&#039;ll be doing Obama&#039;s invocation at the inaugural.

Anyway, regardless of a thin and uncharacteristically unsettling view of scripture, I think it also betrays Warren&#039;s lack of foreign policy understanding. 

Put aside the moral and legal issues with a US-government supported policy for assassination .... what would killing Ahmadinejad even accomplish?! He&#039;s just the president, not the Supreme Leader! I love how the right wing always seem to overlook the fact that Ahmadinejad, while powerful fairly powerful in the Iranian domestic economy, has some pretty big limits on Iran&#039;s affairs abroad. If we kill or advocate as a nation killing anyone in Iran (much less most countries around the world), we&#039;ll just end up with more BLOWBACK. See Operation Ajax and our ouster of Iran&#039;s genuinely democratic Prime Minister Mossedaq in 1953. 

Strong national defense and continuing our push to limit Iran&#039;s nuclear ambitions is one thing, but what the heck Pastor Rick?! 

A lot of Iranians are embarrassed by Amadinejad anyway, hopefully he&#039;ll lose next June&#039;s election.

Ugh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m amazed I let Pastor Rick&#8217;s surprising comment get by me. Its pretty relevant now that he&#8217;ll be doing Obama&#8217;s invocation at the inaugural.</p>
<p>Anyway, regardless of a thin and uncharacteristically unsettling view of scripture, I think it also betrays Warren&#8217;s lack of foreign policy understanding. </p>
<p>Put aside the moral and legal issues with a US-government supported policy for assassination &#8230;. what would killing Ahmadinejad even accomplish?! He&#8217;s just the president, not the Supreme Leader! I love how the right wing always seem to overlook the fact that Ahmadinejad, while powerful fairly powerful in the Iranian domestic economy, has some pretty big limits on Iran&#8217;s affairs abroad. If we kill or advocate as a nation killing anyone in Iran (much less most countries around the world), we&#8217;ll just end up with more BLOWBACK. See Operation Ajax and our ouster of Iran&#8217;s genuinely democratic Prime Minister Mossedaq in 1953. </p>
<p>Strong national defense and continuing our push to limit Iran&#8217;s nuclear ambitions is one thing, but what the heck Pastor Rick?! </p>
<p>A lot of Iranians are embarrassed by Amadinejad anyway, hopefully he&#8217;ll lose next June&#8217;s election.</p>
<p>Ugh.</p>
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		<title>By: nvisionthing</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-3294</link>
		<dc:creator>nvisionthing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 03:10:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/#comment-3294</guid>
		<description>&quot;The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers.”

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, being the legitimate head of state must be God&#039;s will. It is Ahmadinejad&#039;s role to remove evil. If the U.S. was to topple his government, the U.S. would be going against the will of God, which would be evil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers.”</p>
<p>President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, being the legitimate head of state must be God&#8217;s will. It is Ahmadinejad&#8217;s role to remove evil. If the U.S. was to topple his government, the U.S. would be going against the will of God, which would be evil.</p>
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		<title>By: mauro7inf</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-3292</link>
		<dc:creator>mauro7inf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/#comment-3292</guid>
		<description>God doesn&#039;t really have total control over people; he places people in power and then complains when they go too far.  Remember the Prophets -- Israel was sinning, so Yahweh (God) sent Nebuchadrezzar to destroy everything.  But then it turned out he&#039;d destroyed too much, and the other countries around had also destroyed too much, so Yahweh decided to punish them, too.

In other words: Biblical theology on God and politics is all over the place.  There&#039;s not much you CAN&#039;T say, one way or the other, about what things Yahweh put there and what things other people put there that pissed Yahweh off.  It&#039;s a fairly difficult question, since it involves the question of free will, and the ancient Israelites and Jews who wrote the Bible certainly didn&#039;t answer it in the book.  They can&#039;t even agree on whether there are any other gods besides Yahweh, just that, if there are, worshipping them is about the worst possible thing you can do.  So Rick Warren is definitely contradicting the Bible somewhere, and he&#039;s definitely in agreement with it somewhere else.  That&#039;s what you get for relying on such a diverse collection of mostly badly-written (and badly-translated, often) ancient texts instead of millennia of rational thinking and moral reasoning.

The point is that the guy&#039;s a homophobe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>God doesn&#8217;t really have total control over people; he places people in power and then complains when they go too far.  Remember the Prophets &#8212; Israel was sinning, so Yahweh (God) sent Nebuchadrezzar to destroy everything.  But then it turned out he&#8217;d destroyed too much, and the other countries around had also destroyed too much, so Yahweh decided to punish them, too.</p>
<p>In other words: Biblical theology on God and politics is all over the place.  There&#8217;s not much you CAN&#8217;T say, one way or the other, about what things Yahweh put there and what things other people put there that pissed Yahweh off.  It&#8217;s a fairly difficult question, since it involves the question of free will, and the ancient Israelites and Jews who wrote the Bible certainly didn&#8217;t answer it in the book.  They can&#8217;t even agree on whether there are any other gods besides Yahweh, just that, if there are, worshipping them is about the worst possible thing you can do.  So Rick Warren is definitely contradicting the Bible somewhere, and he&#8217;s definitely in agreement with it somewhere else.  That&#8217;s what you get for relying on such a diverse collection of mostly badly-written (and badly-translated, often) ancient texts instead of millennia of rational thinking and moral reasoning.</p>
<p>The point is that the guy&#8217;s a homophobe.</p>
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		<title>By: Del Capslock</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-3290</link>
		<dc:creator>Del Capslock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/#comment-3290</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;we need to take him [Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad] out,” Warren agreed&lt;/em&gt;

In-group morality at it&#039;s finest.  There always has to be an enemy, even if innocents have to suffer, since &quot;innocent&quot; doesn&#039;t have meaning for the out-group.  Self-glorification is always the end goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>we need to take him [Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad] out,” Warren agreed</em></p>
<p>In-group morality at it&#8217;s finest.  There always has to be an enemy, even if innocents have to suffer, since &#8220;innocent&#8221; doesn&#8217;t have meaning for the out-group.  Self-glorification is always the end goal.</p>
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		<title>By: ToxicEd</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-3094</link>
		<dc:creator>ToxicEd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 20:14:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/#comment-3094</guid>
		<description>You also have the end of verse 1: &quot;The authorities that exist have been established by God.&quot;  Let&#039;s see, Ahmadinejad is the authority in Iran, just like Saddam was the authority in Iraq.  Therefore they must be established by God.  Warren apparently knows more then God and plans to &quot;correct&quot; God.  Very interesting.  Sounds like someone else in the bible....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You also have the end of verse 1: &#8220;The authorities that exist have been established by God.&#8221;  Let&#8217;s see, Ahmadinejad is the authority in Iran, just like Saddam was the authority in Iraq.  Therefore they must be established by God.  Warren apparently knows more then God and plans to &#8220;correct&#8221; God.  Very interesting.  Sounds like someone else in the bible&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: nitpicker</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/comment-page-1/#comment-3076</link>
		<dc:creator>nitpicker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/12/04/warren-stopping-evil/#comment-3076</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s one major problem here. Romans 13:1-3 says this:&lt;blockquote&gt;Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Then isn&#039;t Warren actually arguing against the Bible when he suggests that we should take Ahmadinejad out? After all, if you accept this argument on its face, then wouldn&#039;t Ahmadinejad also be a &quot;ruler&quot; who is &quot;not a terro to good works&quot;? Or does Rick think God doesn&#039;t rule over Iran?

Warren&#039;s theological thought process is only a step above Hannity&#039;s...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s one major problem here. Romans 13:1-3 says this:<br />
<blockquote>Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power?</p></blockquote>
<p>Then isn&#8217;t Warren actually arguing against the Bible when he suggests that we should take Ahmadinejad out? After all, if you accept this argument on its face, then wouldn&#8217;t Ahmadinejad also be a &#8220;ruler&#8221; who is &#8220;not a terro to good works&#8221;? Or does Rick think God doesn&#8217;t rule over Iran?</p>
<p>Warren&#8217;s theological thought process is only a step above Hannity&#8217;s&#8230;</p>
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