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	<title>Comments on: Elizabeth Edwards On Health Care: ‘This Is Not A Cheap Shot; It Is Potentially Life And Death’</title>
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	<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/</link>
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		<title>By: peacock</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-842</link>
		<dc:creator>peacock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:45:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-842</guid>
		<description>Steinmania, point well taken then. Please do check out the Danish system. GP´s in the US have also decried the lack of emphasis upon the import of GP´s in the proposed health care policies and rightly so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steinmania, point well taken then. Please do check out the Danish system. GP´s in the US have also decried the lack of emphasis upon the import of GP´s in the proposed health care policies and rightly so.</p>
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		<title>By: dkmin</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-838</link>
		<dc:creator>dkmin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-838</guid>
		<description>Elizabeth:

Longtime fan and supporter of you and John.  I hear you&#039;re considering backing Hillary&#039;s campaign.  I would urge you to do so.  You know that her domestic policies are much more progressive and inclusive, and less market-reliant, than the alternatives, and this is huge in a year that should be dominated by the economic downturn we&#039;re facing.

Thanks for your refreshing verve and great opinions, keep them coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Elizabeth:</p>
<p>Longtime fan and supporter of you and John.  I hear you&#8217;re considering backing Hillary&#8217;s campaign.  I would urge you to do so.  You know that her domestic policies are much more progressive and inclusive, and less market-reliant, than the alternatives, and this is huge in a year that should be dominated by the economic downturn we&#8217;re facing.</p>
<p>Thanks for your refreshing verve and great opinions, keep them coming!</p>
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		<title>By: cybercitizen</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-836</link>
		<dc:creator>cybercitizen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:59:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-836</guid>
		<description>Have in the past read some of the statistics cited by jawill11. Therefore, I must agree with jawill11 and disagree with crashtx1 regarding the contribution of trial lawyers to medical costs. Indeed, crashtx1, like McCain, does NOT do his/her homework.

The United States spends almost twice as much on health care per person as Canada, France, and Germany, almost two and a half times as much as Britain--yet our live expectancy is two years below theirs...according to 2004 statistics. 

Canadians do wait longer for hip replacements than Americans, but that&#039;s because Medicare, which pays for most American hip replacments, is so efficient. In fact, Medicare spends 2% of its funds on administration, versus 15% spent on administration by U.S. private health insurers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have in the past read some of the statistics cited by jawill11. Therefore, I must agree with jawill11 and disagree with crashtx1 regarding the contribution of trial lawyers to medical costs. Indeed, crashtx1, like McCain, does NOT do his/her homework.</p>
<p>The United States spends almost twice as much on health care per person as Canada, France, and Germany, almost two and a half times as much as Britain&#8211;yet our live expectancy is two years below theirs&#8230;according to 2004 statistics. </p>
<p>Canadians do wait longer for hip replacements than Americans, but that&#8217;s because Medicare, which pays for most American hip replacments, is so efficient. In fact, Medicare spends 2% of its funds on administration, versus 15% spent on administration by U.S. private health insurers.</p>
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		<title>By: Steinmania</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-818</link>
		<dc:creator>Steinmania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 18:40:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-818</guid>
		<description>Very good point Peacock! I will research the Danish system to see more detail. My tier idea was not so much about the details of coverage as it was an attempt to get people talking about various levels of cost. I have read people talking about a &quot;single payer&quot; system as opposed to the incredibly complex mix of private insurance companies we have now. Just wanted to get people talking about streamlining the system, that all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good point Peacock! I will research the Danish system to see more detail. My tier idea was not so much about the details of coverage as it was an attempt to get people talking about various levels of cost. I have read people talking about a &#8220;single payer&#8221; system as opposed to the incredibly complex mix of private insurance companies we have now. Just wanted to get people talking about streamlining the system, that all.</p>
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		<title>By: peacock</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-816</link>
		<dc:creator>peacock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 17:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-816</guid>
		<description>To &quot;crashtx1&quot;: Health insurance would NOT be cheaper, &quot;if not for men like Mr. Edwards&quot;, as &quot;jawill&quot; has pointed out. 

To&quot;Steinmania&quot;: I would beg to disagree that &quot;crashtx1&quot; is &quot;trying to discuss with a civil tongue&quot;. Whatever, as to your points, no one is suggesting a &quot;single solution&quot;. While I appreciate your &quot;tiered&quot; solution, and DO think that GP´s should be responsible for primary care and referals to secondary care, I disagree with the idea that people should only have access to care that the GP´s can give and that the GP´s cannot refer to higher levels of care. Everyone should be insured access to higher levels of care as ordered via their GP or via specialists or emergency services. As a psychiatrist who practicises in Denmark, where we have such a system, that works just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To &#8220;crashtx1&#8243;: Health insurance would NOT be cheaper, &#8220;if not for men like Mr. Edwards&#8221;, as &#8220;jawill&#8221; has pointed out. </p>
<p>To&#8221;Steinmania&#8221;: I would beg to disagree that &#8220;crashtx1&#8243; is &#8220;trying to discuss with a civil tongue&#8221;. Whatever, as to your points, no one is suggesting a &#8220;single solution&#8221;. While I appreciate your &#8220;tiered&#8221; solution, and DO think that GP´s should be responsible for primary care and referals to secondary care, I disagree with the idea that people should only have access to care that the GP´s can give and that the GP´s cannot refer to higher levels of care. Everyone should be insured access to higher levels of care as ordered via their GP or via specialists or emergency services. As a psychiatrist who practicises in Denmark, where we have such a system, that works just fine.</p>
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		<title>By: peace</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-808</link>
		<dc:creator>peace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-808</guid>
		<description>A very important point about McCain&#039;s government coverage is that he had the peace of mind throughout those years, even when he was in captivity, that his family was covered - McCain is another example, like bush: a combination of ignorant and stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very important point about McCain&#8217;s government coverage is that he had the peace of mind throughout those years, even when he was in captivity, that his family was covered &#8211; McCain is another example, like bush: a combination of ignorant and stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Steinmania</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-806</link>
		<dc:creator>Steinmania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:13:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-806</guid>
		<description>I think crashtx1 is trying to discuss the topic with a civil tongue. 

The biggest thing I have noticed about all of these blog entries is that everyone seems to expect a single solution. Health Care in this country is too complicated for a single solution. 

What about a three for four tier system? The lowest tier being free for all and includes doctor appointments for &quot;family doctor&quot; sorts of ailments. The seccond tier costing a co-pay for a little more care like simple emergency room stuff. The third tier may be paid in cash or credit card or insurance programs, paid for by employers or through families purchasing their own private health insurance. The fourth tier may consist of &quot;catastrophic health insurance.&quot; Heart or lung transplants or devastating disease treatments. The fifth tier could be premier treatments like private rooms, etc.

In this way, all would be covered for some basic free care or cheap simple treatments. Private insurance companies would still be able to sell insurance to groups (companies) or individuals. 

This does not answer all the health care questions, but it is a point of view that no one seems to be talking about.

Any feedback on this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think crashtx1 is trying to discuss the topic with a civil tongue. </p>
<p>The biggest thing I have noticed about all of these blog entries is that everyone seems to expect a single solution. Health Care in this country is too complicated for a single solution. </p>
<p>What about a three for four tier system? The lowest tier being free for all and includes doctor appointments for &#8220;family doctor&#8221; sorts of ailments. The seccond tier costing a co-pay for a little more care like simple emergency room stuff. The third tier may be paid in cash or credit card or insurance programs, paid for by employers or through families purchasing their own private health insurance. The fourth tier may consist of &#8220;catastrophic health insurance.&#8221; Heart or lung transplants or devastating disease treatments. The fifth tier could be premier treatments like private rooms, etc.</p>
<p>In this way, all would be covered for some basic free care or cheap simple treatments. Private insurance companies would still be able to sell insurance to groups (companies) or individuals. </p>
<p>This does not answer all the health care questions, but it is a point of view that no one seems to be talking about.</p>
<p>Any feedback on this?</p>
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		<title>By: jawill11</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-804</link>
		<dc:creator>jawill11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:40:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-804</guid>
		<description>OK crashtx1, lets have a serious discussion.  

You seem to be under the misconception (right-wing talking point) that litigation is a huge burden on our health care industry.  The facts don&#039;t agree with you, however, as litigation costs represent about 0.5% of heathcare costs in our country.  MUCH more burdensom is the overhead costs, which are over 30%.  This is compared with Medicare, which is about 2%.  I won&#039;t even get into the fact that malpractice is a real issue and juries issue verdicts because people actually had their lives destroyed many times by negligence or worse.  I also won&#039;t get into the overhead costs for the doctors themselves who have to typically hire a whole staff of people just to push papers for the insurance companies.  

There is no argument to defend our current system.  Even if you want to argue purely from an economic or efficiancy standpoint, it is a loser.  We pay far more out the back end for the uninsured and for our gross lack of preventative care.  We also end up paying more in terms of lost jobs and lost wages from companies moving to other countries to avoid healthcare costs, from lost work due to preventable medical problems, etc.  

Finally, why would your doctor make less money because his payment check is coming from the gov&#039;t verses coming from Cigna?  I bet if you had a real conversation with him/her, you would find that he/she has a hard time getting paid for certain procedures from the private companies, and is have to pay out of pocket for all those support staff to deal with the companies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK crashtx1, lets have a serious discussion.  </p>
<p>You seem to be under the misconception (right-wing talking point) that litigation is a huge burden on our health care industry.  The facts don&#8217;t agree with you, however, as litigation costs represent about 0.5% of heathcare costs in our country.  MUCH more burdensom is the overhead costs, which are over 30%.  This is compared with Medicare, which is about 2%.  I won&#8217;t even get into the fact that malpractice is a real issue and juries issue verdicts because people actually had their lives destroyed many times by negligence or worse.  I also won&#8217;t get into the overhead costs for the doctors themselves who have to typically hire a whole staff of people just to push papers for the insurance companies.  </p>
<p>There is no argument to defend our current system.  Even if you want to argue purely from an economic or efficiancy standpoint, it is a loser.  We pay far more out the back end for the uninsured and for our gross lack of preventative care.  We also end up paying more in terms of lost jobs and lost wages from companies moving to other countries to avoid healthcare costs, from lost work due to preventable medical problems, etc.  </p>
<p>Finally, why would your doctor make less money because his payment check is coming from the gov&#8217;t verses coming from Cigna?  I bet if you had a real conversation with him/her, you would find that he/she has a hard time getting paid for certain procedures from the private companies, and is have to pay out of pocket for all those support staff to deal with the companies.</p>
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		<title>By: sallywally</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-802</link>
		<dc:creator>sallywally</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-802</guid>
		<description>I too saw the PBS special on health care in various countries and noted that they all had mandated coverage for all, the only way serious savings can occur. 

There are doctors&#039; groups who support universal health care. Rationing already occurs, obviously by denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions. 

I am covered by my retirement system but cannot get long-term care insurance because I&#039;ve to a serious of conditions that are not serious for me but for which I get medicated - blood pressure, acid reflux, cholesterol, depression, some bits for arthritis, restless legs....so anyway,this is only because these companies don&#039;t want to take on any risk - &lt;em&gt;long-term healthcare companies that want no risk?????&lt;/em&gt; That&#039;s a contradiction in terms! 

I know many people, some of them &quot;professional class,&quot; who have to endure jobs they hate just to keep health insurance. I know at least one person who was borne under by family health problems he could not cover because he couldn&#039;t afford health insurance and had to declare bankruptcy. He himself is now very ill but has to work full-time to be covered. He really is disabled but in Ohio it is a two-year wait and I think he would have to not work the whole time, which he can&#039;t afford to do. 

It&#039;s a truly brutal and inhumane system. 

I agree with the Edwardses that Clinton&#039;s plan is significantly better than Obama&#039;s (as are most of her programs) and I hope and pray that hers are the programs we end up with, even if Obama is elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too saw the PBS special on health care in various countries and noted that they all had mandated coverage for all, the only way serious savings can occur. </p>
<p>There are doctors&#8217; groups who support universal health care. Rationing already occurs, obviously by denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions. </p>
<p>I am covered by my retirement system but cannot get long-term care insurance because I&#8217;ve to a serious of conditions that are not serious for me but for which I get medicated &#8211; blood pressure, acid reflux, cholesterol, depression, some bits for arthritis, restless legs&#8230;.so anyway,this is only because these companies don&#8217;t want to take on any risk &#8211; <em>long-term healthcare companies that want no risk?????</em> That&#8217;s a contradiction in terms! </p>
<p>I know many people, some of them &#8220;professional class,&#8221; who have to endure jobs they hate just to keep health insurance. I know at least one person who was borne under by family health problems he could not cover because he couldn&#8217;t afford health insurance and had to declare bankruptcy. He himself is now very ill but has to work full-time to be covered. He really is disabled but in Ohio it is a two-year wait and I think he would have to not work the whole time, which he can&#8217;t afford to do. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a truly brutal and inhumane system. </p>
<p>I agree with the Edwardses that Clinton&#8217;s plan is significantly better than Obama&#8217;s (as are most of her programs) and I hope and pray that hers are the programs we end up with, even if Obama is elected.</p>
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		<title>By: crashtx1</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-798</link>
		<dc:creator>crashtx1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-798</guid>
		<description>I guess I&#039;m #28.  Sorry, won&#039;t work that way.  My doctor is not a specialist.  I know not all doctors are rich, but like most people they are trying to make as much money as they can too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess I&#8217;m #28.  Sorry, won&#8217;t work that way.  My doctor is not a specialist.  I know not all doctors are rich, but like most people they are trying to make as much money as they can too.</p>
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		<title>By: christopher wiwi</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-796</link>
		<dc:creator>christopher wiwi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:38:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-796</guid>
		<description>#28 you are so way off base, Why do doctors have to give up their mansions? If they got into medicine for the $$$$ then they should leave the field and go into politics.Doctors with those kinds of houses are usually specialist who do make money most likely on elective type surgery such as cosmetic surgery(plastic surgeons) and so forth.Your average everyday doctor is in it to help people not make tons of money and live the High Life.All that is going to happen if socialized medicine takes off is the Gov`t will buy all the hopitals, equipment and so on , and the people that work at the hospitals will remain as will the doctors and everything will as it was before.Of course there will be some bumps but I am all for big Gov`t because the re-pukes and their small gov`t is as crooked and corrupt as any that has ever ran a country in history.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#28 you are so way off base, Why do doctors have to give up their mansions? If they got into medicine for the $$$$ then they should leave the field and go into politics.Doctors with those kinds of houses are usually specialist who do make money most likely on elective type surgery such as cosmetic surgery(plastic surgeons) and so forth.Your average everyday doctor is in it to help people not make tons of money and live the High Life.All that is going to happen if socialized medicine takes off is the Gov`t will buy all the hopitals, equipment and so on , and the people that work at the hospitals will remain as will the doctors and everything will as it was before.Of course there will be some bumps but I am all for big Gov`t because the re-pukes and their small gov`t is as crooked and corrupt as any that has ever ran a country in history.</p>
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		<title>By: christopher wiwi</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-794</link>
		<dc:creator>christopher wiwi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-794</guid>
		<description>McFlipoflop is flopping again on this issue and this is what America will get if he wins, just more of the same in the health care industry. Re-pukes don`t like big gov`t because they have a buddy who can do the job, by running up cost at our exspense, skimming money off of the top for themselves and genrally raking in the cash while America suffers because we have a small re-puke gov`t, well I am for a big gov`t that will run medicare/medicaid at a three to five percent overhead, fix our countries infrastructure, put more port inspectors on duty, put our children`s public education back on top,take care of it`s War veterans the proper way, you name it a big Gov`t in my book works and the rest of this country  knows it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>McFlipoflop is flopping again on this issue and this is what America will get if he wins, just more of the same in the health care industry. Re-pukes don`t like big gov`t because they have a buddy who can do the job, by running up cost at our exspense, skimming money off of the top for themselves and genrally raking in the cash while America suffers because we have a small re-puke gov`t, well I am for a big gov`t that will run medicare/medicaid at a three to five percent overhead, fix our countries infrastructure, put more port inspectors on duty, put our children`s public education back on top,take care of it`s War veterans the proper way, you name it a big Gov`t in my book works and the rest of this country  knows it.</p>
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		<title>By: crashtx1</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-792</link>
		<dc:creator>crashtx1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:22:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-792</guid>
		<description>What do lawyers have to do with healthcare?  Wow, do you know any medical professionals?  Malpractice insurance driven by lawsuits (Mr. Edwards) is a huge contributor to the cost of healthcare.  If we do not want the medical profession driven by profit then it will have to be socialized, and that will mean massive changes and rationing(see Canada).  I’m not saying that is wrong, but we just need to decide for sure that’s what we want.  Will my doctor work as hard in a socialized medical setting if it means giving up his $700K house?  Not sure; that’s the problem with socialism.  We just need to realize that people like the Edwards (or Cheney’s or whatever right-wing name you want to throw in) are not going to lead us into this panacea because they are part of the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What do lawyers have to do with healthcare?  Wow, do you know any medical professionals?  Malpractice insurance driven by lawsuits (Mr. Edwards) is a huge contributor to the cost of healthcare.  If we do not want the medical profession driven by profit then it will have to be socialized, and that will mean massive changes and rationing(see Canada).  I’m not saying that is wrong, but we just need to decide for sure that’s what we want.  Will my doctor work as hard in a socialized medical setting if it means giving up his $700K house?  Not sure; that’s the problem with socialism.  We just need to realize that people like the Edwards (or Cheney’s or whatever right-wing name you want to throw in) are not going to lead us into this panacea because they are part of the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: PatKiely</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-790</link>
		<dc:creator>PatKiely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 13:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-790</guid>
		<description>On Sunday morning, McCain responded to the concept of universal healthcare with the mantra...&quot;Big gov&#039;t can&#039;t provide good care...just look at Canada&quot;.  

As a Cdn with more than a passing interst in US politics, I have always found this a curious defense for leaving the health debate pretty much where it is mired today in the US.  Because this one-liner is quite virtually never challenged by mainstream media, the deafening silence is quiet and implied agreement. The most common excuse for not pursuing this comment with &quot;Explain what you mean by that...&quot; is we are running out of time and I have to throw to a commercial.

Don&#039;t misunderstand me, Canada&#039;s system of healthcare is not without its faults and failings.  Healthcare costs and access for all does not get any easier on this side of a border that separates us...what we do know in Canada is that people with pre-exisiting conditions and meagre coverage from &quot;private&quot; work plans are not marginalized and left to suffer and die untreated.

Societally we have concluded in Canada that access to care is one of those areas where gov&#039;t not only can, but must play a role.  

America is without a doubt one of mankind&#039;s most successful and intriguing experiments...I refuse to believe that your country lacks the will and creativity to understand that the health of all citizens when attended to intelligently raises the general well-being of every single citizen, wealthy and poor alike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Sunday morning, McCain responded to the concept of universal healthcare with the mantra&#8230;&#8221;Big gov&#8217;t can&#8217;t provide good care&#8230;just look at Canada&#8221;.  </p>
<p>As a Cdn with more than a passing interst in US politics, I have always found this a curious defense for leaving the health debate pretty much where it is mired today in the US.  Because this one-liner is quite virtually never challenged by mainstream media, the deafening silence is quiet and implied agreement. The most common excuse for not pursuing this comment with &#8220;Explain what you mean by that&#8230;&#8221; is we are running out of time and I have to throw to a commercial.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t misunderstand me, Canada&#8217;s system of healthcare is not without its faults and failings.  Healthcare costs and access for all does not get any easier on this side of a border that separates us&#8230;what we do know in Canada is that people with pre-exisiting conditions and meagre coverage from &#8220;private&#8221; work plans are not marginalized and left to suffer and die untreated.</p>
<p>Societally we have concluded in Canada that access to care is one of those areas where gov&#8217;t not only can, but must play a role.  </p>
<p>America is without a doubt one of mankind&#8217;s most successful and intriguing experiments&#8230;I refuse to believe that your country lacks the will and creativity to understand that the health of all citizens when attended to intelligently raises the general well-being of every single citizen, wealthy and poor alike.</p>
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		<title>By: Brain Hertz</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-786</link>
		<dc:creator>Brain Hertz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 05:41:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-786</guid>
		<description>But, surely, as only John McCain seems to realize, the important thing here is that ordinary people are provided with &lt;em&gt;choice&lt;/em&gt;.

These crazy far-left smelly hippy big-government &quot;healthcare&quot; policies would deny hard-working &#039;murrikans their God-given right to make a &lt;em&gt;personal choice&lt;/em&gt; between buying food and paying for healthcare.

What are you? A bunch of communists or something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But, surely, as only John McCain seems to realize, the important thing here is that ordinary people are provided with <em>choice</em>.</p>
<p>These crazy far-left smelly hippy big-government &#8220;healthcare&#8221; policies would deny hard-working &#8216;murrikans their God-given right to make a <em>personal choice</em> between buying food and paying for healthcare.</p>
<p>What are you? A bunch of communists or something?</p>
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		<title>By: rollotomasi</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-784</link>
		<dc:creator>rollotomasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-784</guid>
		<description>The pie is getting smaller (less people covered and less coverage for those who do have it), get it?  Physicians are the least of the problems, and lawyers?  What do they have to do with medical coverage - pure right-wing hooey.  The pie is getting smaller becuase insurance companies long ago decided that thickening already-rich shareholders&#039; pockets is much more important than the health of those they cover - or should cover, and its not even close.  This has been enabled by a government that has de-regulated and sanctioned these companies to the point that they can raise premiums indiscriminately and dictate coverage, even treatment of patients they don&#039;t even know.

Look, we&#039;re living this stuff, so you can keep spouting that simplistic ideology but we&#039;re not buying it anymore.  Btw, physicians that I talk to are just about as fed up as we are at the hoops they must jump through to get insurance companies to cover their patients&#039; treatments.  The rationing starts by putting risk, responsibility and accountability back in the health insurance business and going from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The pie is getting smaller (less people covered and less coverage for those who do have it), get it?  Physicians are the least of the problems, and lawyers?  What do they have to do with medical coverage &#8211; pure right-wing hooey.  The pie is getting smaller becuase insurance companies long ago decided that thickening already-rich shareholders&#8217; pockets is much more important than the health of those they cover &#8211; or should cover, and its not even close.  This has been enabled by a government that has de-regulated and sanctioned these companies to the point that they can raise premiums indiscriminately and dictate coverage, even treatment of patients they don&#8217;t even know.</p>
<p>Look, we&#8217;re living this stuff, so you can keep spouting that simplistic ideology but we&#8217;re not buying it anymore.  Btw, physicians that I talk to are just about as fed up as we are at the hoops they must jump through to get insurance companies to cover their patients&#8217; treatments.  The rationing starts by putting risk, responsibility and accountability back in the health insurance business and going from there.</p>
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		<title>By: crashtx1</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-782</link>
		<dc:creator>crashtx1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 03:13:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-782</guid>
		<description>I like the &quot;crashtx1 — Wrong-O&quot;, shows that higher thought and education.  I guess you have spent a lot of time in a government run medical facility to see how great the patients are treated?  I think what everyone wants is all access to the best medical treatment without paying for it.  Sorry, that won&#039;t work.  I&#039;m all open to the discussion on what part of medicine will be rationed so that almost everyone else will have access.  The doctors will not want to give up their big houses, the lawyers(Edward’s family) will not want to give up their big houses.  Something will have to give.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the &#8220;crashtx1 — Wrong-O&#8221;, shows that higher thought and education.  I guess you have spent a lot of time in a government run medical facility to see how great the patients are treated?  I think what everyone wants is all access to the best medical treatment without paying for it.  Sorry, that won&#8217;t work.  I&#8217;m all open to the discussion on what part of medicine will be rationed so that almost everyone else will have access.  The doctors will not want to give up their big houses, the lawyers(Edward’s family) will not want to give up their big houses.  Something will have to give.</p>
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		<title>By: rollotomasi</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-780</link>
		<dc:creator>rollotomasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-780</guid>
		<description>Oh, almost forgot ... thanks Mrs. Edwards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, almost forgot &#8230; thanks Mrs. Edwards.</p>
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		<title>By: rollotomasi</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-778</link>
		<dc:creator>rollotomasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-778</guid>
		<description>When the insurance were de-mutualized (meaning that the insured no longer owned the company) several years ago, their primary concern became their shareholders and the bottom line.  They are now completely about maximizing premiums and minimizing costs, by finding whatever loopholes they can to limit coverage to the insured.  They can even dictate prescriptions to patients, whose cases they never see and cannot know.

Any national health care plan that doesn&#039;t deal squarely with the power these companies have attained is doomed to failure.  What these companies have been allowed to get away with is a crime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When the insurance were de-mutualized (meaning that the insured no longer owned the company) several years ago, their primary concern became their shareholders and the bottom line.  They are now completely about maximizing premiums and minimizing costs, by finding whatever loopholes they can to limit coverage to the insured.  They can even dictate prescriptions to patients, whose cases they never see and cannot know.</p>
<p>Any national health care plan that doesn&#8217;t deal squarely with the power these companies have attained is doomed to failure.  What these companies have been allowed to get away with is a crime.</p>
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		<title>By: Prairie Sunshine</title>
		<link>http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/comment-page-1/#comment-774</link>
		<dc:creator>Prairie Sunshine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Apr 2008 02:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thinkprogress.org/wonkroom/2008/04/21/elizabeth-responds-cheap-shot/#comment-774</guid>
		<description>crashtx1 -- Wrong-O:  

&lt;blockquote&gt;Insurance would be cheaper if not for men like Mr. Edwards.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Insurance would be cheaper if the risk were spread among the entire population.  If we didn&#039;t have to pay for layers of bureaucracy whose prime function is to deny coverage.  If we didn&#039;t have companies treat injury and death and health problems such as cancer from toxic products as just a &quot;cost of doing business.&quot;  If we didn&#039;t have so many Wall Streeters dipping their beaks into the health care industry as little more than Tony Sopranos.

The perversion of health care is a national disgrace and I, like Elizabeth Edwards and so many whose families are touched by serious pre-existing conditions, will be watching all the candidates...and those who are elected.  And demanding better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>crashtx1 &#8212; Wrong-O:  </p>
<blockquote><p>Insurance would be cheaper if not for men like Mr. Edwards.</p></blockquote>
<p>Insurance would be cheaper if the risk were spread among the entire population.  If we didn&#8217;t have to pay for layers of bureaucracy whose prime function is to deny coverage.  If we didn&#8217;t have companies treat injury and death and health problems such as cancer from toxic products as just a &#8220;cost of doing business.&#8221;  If we didn&#8217;t have so many Wall Streeters dipping their beaks into the health care industry as little more than Tony Sopranos.</p>
<p>The perversion of health care is a national disgrace and I, like Elizabeth Edwards and so many whose families are touched by serious pre-existing conditions, will be watching all the candidates&#8230;and those who are elected.  And demanding better.</p>
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